Siobhan (Coach)
So let’s begin. So morning, Elaine, how are you?

Elaine
Morning, Siobhan, I’m very good, very excited because it’s today. We’re wearing our T shirts.

Siobhan (Coach)
We are, we are very, very exciting. I am really excited about our conversation today, because I feel like you and I haven’t really had the opportunity to talk about watch her lead from a behind the scenes perspective as to why we’re doing what we’re doing. You and I have been very busy, like putting on master classes and hosting breakfasts and lunches, which has been fantastic. But today’s conversation for those of you who are listening or watching is really an opportunity to learn a little bit more about what the watch her lead Academy is, why Elaine and I created it, and why we’re so passionate about it, specifically for us as women in Asia. So if you’ve ever felt called to lead, or whether you don’t even resonate with the word leadership, that that doesn’t matter what the way we define leadership, which Elaine and I will describe in a moment, is it’s really about you taking charge of your life, right? You don’t have to be the CEO, you don’t have to be a line manager. You don’t have to have that title. We all lead in our lives, whether you’re working, whether you’re a parent, whether you’re sort of leading your own health journey, all of this is leadership, and it’s self leadership. So let’s have a little chat about it. Where do you want to begin? Elaine, shall we talk about leadership and how we define it first before we talk about what you lead? Does that feel good

Elaine
to you? Because actually, as you were talking this, these people came into my mind. I was having a chat. So you and I both Women’s Foundation mentoring program alumni mentors. You’re more senior than I am. I’ve only just finished the cohort, but it was so interesting to meet so many people. But when you talk about leadership, we were talking in a group, and there was a few proteges, basically the people we mentee, right? And they were saying, Oh yeah, but I’m not a leader. And I was like, oh, okay, interesting. What do you do? You know? And they were, they did different things, but they were all leaders. Even the individual contributors were leaders. And when we talked about leadership, because some of them had teams, but this is being in Asia, especially Hong Kong, where people call themselves small potatoes. I don’t know if you’ve heard that before. Yes, I have definitely heard that. I’ve definitely, oh, I’m

Elaine
just a small potato. And it’s like, well, you need a team of three. So that’s not a small potato, you know? Or you are an individual contributor, but you’re part of like, three massive projects, and you have to do lots of stakeholder management and influencing, and that’s leadership. And so I was like, wow. So if you don’t have leader or manager in your title, people, or you’re not a senior director, then people are like, I’m not a leader. So that was really interesting to me.

Siobhan (Coach)
Yeah, I’m glad you brought up that point, because even you know, behind the scenes for everyone, like, what listening and watching, when we had this idea for watch her lead, we didn’t just jump in and start creating even though, Elaine and I have both been doing leadership coaching and development for I mean, I’ve been doing it for more than 10 years. Elaine, you’ve been doing it for much longer. And within, you know, Cathay Pacific, internally. And you know, we could have just gone, okay, well, we’ll come up with our own thing. But we actually ran focus groups, and in that call for leadership, when we mentioned that word, we got such a wide variety of women coming through, which I thought was really interesting, because, yeah, yeah. Some were not. Some were really senior leaders and had the title, and others were like, Oh, but I want to go into leadership. So I think leadership is such a broad term, and it’s important for us to define what we mean by it when we’re talking about, watch her lead. Because in the academy, when we talk about leadership, it’s really around I call them basic life skills, like self management, self leadership skills that we weren’t taught at school. So let’s share a bit more about how this whole thing came to be. Elaine, I’d love for you. Do you want to talk about how this, how this came to be? Well,

Elaine
how you and I came to be?

Speaker 2
Like a love story. Sorry, but very much. So really, I spend more time with you than I do my own husband. Are you talking about you more than my own husband? The kids are like, Shiv, Shiv, Shiv, shiv.

Elaine
I’m like, Yes, Shiv shiv. So you and I were doing our own thing separately. I had just come out of corporate, like, a year, I think, a year and a half, and was just sort of, you know, feeling my vibe, trying to figure out what I was going to do, but definitely working with women, definitely in leadership and coaching. You were already, you know, well established in that space. And the Women’s Foundation again, which is, I think we just made such a wonderful community. Thank you Women’s Foundation, yeah, I know. Thank you. Contacted us separately, right? And said that Lulu Lemon were looking for women leadership coaches to run or support their Asia Pacific women leadership signature program that year. And we were like, I don’t know about you, but I was like,

Speaker 2
yes, yes, me too. I was like, hell yes, yeah, oh yes. I was

Elaine
like, does that mean I get to wear Lululemon every time I go, like, How cool was that? And so, yeah, and so then. But the interesting thing is, I remember speaking to the person who was in charge, and she had quite a few coaches, right that she was interviewing, and she was going to bring on, like, five or six to run this, this this thing, and we spoke about it. And I remember saying to her, you know, because I come from that dei space and managing different people, external coaches and your internal, it’s a lot. And I remember saying to her, you know, have you considered maybe just two? And look, it doesn’t have to be me, but two would be a bit easier, because they could basically just talk with each other, manage the program and just report back to you, and it would just be a little bit easier for you. Anyway, she took on that suggestion, and she chose you and I, and that’s where it all began.

Siobhan (Coach)
It was meant to be. I found the same on the other side, like I had the same feeling. I was like, Oh my gosh, Lululemon, I would love this. And, you know, had the conversation with the person in charge, and I was really curious about who the other coach was. And I’m glad you said just one other coach, because I think that really allowed you and I to obviously, we would debrief, and we would make sure we were aligned, you know, throughout the whole whole program, but I think in that journey, that’s when we realized that we had same mission, same vision, same passion, very similar values. And more than that, we realized we both grew up in Hong Kong. We both have mixed backgrounds. We have children that are similar age going to the same schools. Like, how do we not know each other? It was great. And I remember meeting like the first coffee. It was like, Oh, should we meet in central because, you know, that’s what we do. And then, because I, you know, live in the sticks, we’re both on Calhoun side, and we then started talking about where we lived. It was like, Oh, great, let’s just go to chunk one. Oh, like, it’s so much closer to schlep art.

Speaker 2
It is insane.

Siobhan (Coach)
But I think that program, like, I think that experience, what it really taught me on the other side is I was I’d been working as a coach for a long time, and it really worked for me. It was over a decade that I was coaching women, I was working at a coaching school, and the working from home behind the scenes was really great, because I had young kids, but I was actually at a turning point in my own business where I was like, I miss community. I miss collaboration. I don’t know, like if how I’m going to get that I did not have the answer. And so I think for many of the women we coach, they also have, like, a challenge, and they don’t know the answer. And sometimes just being clear on what your challenge is and being open to what life throws your way, like, suddenly this has become a thing, and I could not have foreseen it. I could not have planned or strategized. It was literally just following the breadcrumbs. And I think you and I had an honest conversation, and I was like, You know what? Like, what’s it like running your business? I know for me, I’m, you know, this is what I’m worried like, I’m challenged by. And then you came up with the idea of teammates. And we started like doing this collaboration, and like just co working, and suddenly we had this idea for a retreat, and then we got to test to like working together outside of Lululemon, which I think was a lovely way to kind of test how we work together, and also test our idea for putting forward an opportunity for professional women to have a day out to focus on themselves, which is then led to watch her lead.

Elaine
But, yeah, I think I love that breadcrumb thing, because we couldn’t have been like, hey, let’s start something called watch her lead like it just doesn’t work like that. You don’t know, you know what you want. We were very clear in our vision in terms of working with women, building community, working with professional women in this space. That’s very personal, because I think in Hong Kong especially, and we hope to branch out to Asia, obviously, but there’s lots of women communities. But we want to go deep, right? We want deepness. We don’t like that. A lot of conferences, a lot of events, and they’re all wonderful. We’re going to one of them today, that it’s not shallow, that’s the wrong word. It’s fleeting. It’s amazing for the day, and then it kind of fizzles. Although the women Foundation does amazing, we just want to go deep, and we want to give women space, and we want to give women community, right? And I think we found that with working you and I, but also that’s how we found Anna Lorena, who did our branding and marketing, and then we found other women and and that’s also what watcher lead is about, right? It’s not just you and I. We have met so many incredible women mentors along the way, like Amanda from Amanda Lee styling, who’s going to come in and talk about, you know, presence and confidence and feeling your best and using clothes and image to help with that. Or Steph, from perform, which is your gym? Anyone? Talk a little bit about her, yeah,

Siobhan (Coach)
so she’ll come on board to talk about why we need to do strength training and look after our bodies and start lifting, not just from a health perspective, but also from a mindset, like, a view of, like, challenging yourself, pushing and expanding yourself, which is, you know, when you and I have this seed of an idea for this program, Elaine, I was really excited, because I think we’ll be in our focus groups, right? I think 75% of women said that the leadership programs that they’ve participated in just don’t meet their needs. And I think, yes, we want to have the tangible skills for how to advance our careers. But at the end of the day, we’re not just our work personas. We’re not just that, you know, where we go nine till six, or, you know, in Hong Kong, much longer hours, like with evening calls. You know, we are human beings. We have responsibilities outside of the office, and women do take the lion’s share of the mental load of what’s going on at home, whether you have kids or you’ve got aging parents, and I think that’s a really missed opportunity in a lot of programs, because it sort of assumes that you’ve got all the time in the world. It’s the same with them. You know, productivity books, right? They’re predominantly written by men, where they don’t have to do the housework. They can wake up at 5am and do their morning routine. They don’t have to wake up with the baby. Like, I feel like that’s kind of where leadership programs have kind of come from. But with watch her lead, we’re really passionate about bringing in things like styling and personal, you know, personal health, and, you know, money, mindset, and, you know, AI, like all the other areas that we need to flourish and thrive. So, yeah, I

Elaine
completely agree. I mean, I still remember it was like, maybe our fourth or fifth conversation, and you came to where my new gym was, and I hadn’t stepped foot in a gym, honestly, for at least a decade, and you were talking about how you’ve been going every day, and you’d seen, you know, a wellness doctor, and she really encouraged you to start strength training and and I that day, it was my first, it was like, info intro session, and I it was like, I had to look for the toilet, because I was literally the vomit. Was like, here I was worked so hard. And I remember sitting with you and being like, I feel great.

Speaker 3
I remember one workout, I feel great. You’re like, yeah, you know,

Elaine
slowly, slowly, you’ll get there. You know, I’ve been doing it for a few years and but, you know, since then, I’ve been going like, three, four times a week. And it’s changed so much. It’s changed my energy, it’s changed my confidence, it’s changed my focus. It’s changed. My like, can do, you know, that kind of the self doubt is a lot less as well, because you’re lifting something you’ve never or jumping up a box that you’ve never jumped. So it all translates over. And I think that’s, you know, like the with a retreat again. I don’t want to insult anybody who does retreats, but we were like, Look, we’re not going to do yoga, you know, we’re not gonna, we’re gonna get down to business and we’re gonna talk about the stuff that really moves the dial. Because professional women, we are juggling a lot, and we’re time poor, and we’re bandwidth poor, and so, you know, we’re so results oriented. You and I, I think we’re, we’re all about the pause and the reflection and all that stuff that then brings out the tangible outcomes. So, yeah, yeah, I’m so pumped.

Siobhan (Coach)
Yeah, I can tell, I can tell, which is amazing, I know, and it’s so fun that we get to create this program, right? I think that’s what we were inspired by. Because, you know, obviously, we were facilitating lululemon’s program, which was amazing. That’s their content and their IP. But when we were coming up with ours, it was like, Oh, we get to play. We actually get to bring in all the elements that we want to which has been really, really fun. So when do you feel like the idea for watch her lead kind of landed, and for you, like, what was that tipping point where it was like, let’s do this? Because you and I were pivoting. We were like, do we run the retreat again?

Elaine
And it evolved, yeah, I think we wanted to reach more women, and we wanted to have a longer relationship with women, and we saw the man. Logic of women being in the same place, whether it be virtual or in person, which is why we’re doing hybrid, right? We know there’s so much space for both, because we want to come together, but we also can’t afford the time as women. We just can’t, right? So we’re doing a hybrid. And I think we were like, Hey, we’re still seeing corporates really backwards in terms of being future ready. You know, AI was just coming up chat. GPT wasn’t even a thing. I think when we came up with the idea, like, eight months ago, it was just just starting, and we were just like, we just see this need. And we thought it was the middle rung, right? We thought it was going to be women who were kind of in their 30s, 40s, that leaky pipeline. And so we just started talking to corporates and exploring. Turns out, it’s not just those women. All women are interested in kind of up leveling themselves, getting ready for this massive tsunami that’s coming, or actually is right here and getting themselves ready for what’s to come. And so we were like, Should we, should we maybe put together something that might help people? And I don’t remember the exact time, maybe it was around I WD this year International Women’s Day. Let’s play with something. Let’s chat to a few people we know in corporate, see if it would fly. And there seems to be quite a big interest. So here we are. Yeah, there we go. What about you? Do you remember it differently? Or

Siobhan (Coach)
Yeah? No, I think we had a moment where we were thinking about what we would do next with a retreat. And initially we thought, when we just do the retreat, we’d run it again, because then we had quite a few on the waitlist that wanted to come along to the next one. And I think you and I did think about, you know, how we could make an impact, and what actually works well for us, and how we do well as coaches. And I, for me, I remember, you know, we took a lot from the Lululemon program, just from a facilitator, and I guess transformation perspective I saw, I really saw the value of having that time with the participants, to be able to go deep. And I think every time I experience it with you, Elaine, like when we deliver something. So we did the future of work workshop for BlackRock, right? And we did a negotiation, like asking for what you want with the cornet community, and it’s great. Like you said, it’s like, in that moment, it’s more than fleeting, because we’re facilitating a workshop. But I want to go deeper, because people come up to you afterwards and they’re like, Oh, what about this? What about that? And I think that’s when it became clear that, yeah, that longer container to be able to continue the conversation was going to be beneficial, which is where the the academy

Elaine
came in, container. It is like, container, yeah, right. You’re in a container and a nice one, not a steel one, like a nice, not a tupperware. Yes, yes. Because actually, after one of those workshops, I remember these three women, I was washing my hands in the bathroom, and they were like, kind of hovering. And they were like, can we talk a little bit more about what, what that thing? And I was like, of course. And they were like, you know, we we really thought it was us that was, you know, this, that didn’t have the confidence. Or, you know, they’re talking about imposter syndrome and, and actually, that’s the other thing about our program is, we know, as you said, about built by men, right? The system is built by men. The working place is built by men. For men, it is changing at snail pace, but it’s changing, and we just want to redefine that. And, you know, I worked so many years in dei and corporate trying to change the system. And, yeah, we made some headway, but it was always two steps forward, five steps back. So frustrating. And all the DEI people, if you’re listening, you will completely resonate with this. And so, you know, my personal mission was, okay, you know what? That’s important work that needs to be done. But I’m a bit burnt out, in fact, very burnt out. And I’m I want to work with women individually, because the more of us that ask for what we want, set our boundaries, know how to negotiate and can lead as women with the more feminine leadership traits that we that we’re known for and actually are very effective, Like authenticity and compassion and vulnerability. You know, all this stuff is so powerful, why don’t we individually, but then the more of us that go through it and are empowered by ourselves and each other collectively, we can actually change the system too. So that’s kind of my grandiose personal mission. When I came out of corporate I was like, I see it this way, but I also see it this way, and maybe this is where the efforts should go, and it also means I could pick up my kids from school and go to the gym Exactly. That’s my version of success, right? And that’s what we want for our participants, is to redefine what success looks like for them and not what society. See or your your organization tells you what success looks like for you. You know, the climbing ladder thing is dead.

Siobhan (Coach)
Yeah, I love soapbox. No, I love it. I can hear, but I can hear your passion and your excitement. And I think two things come to mind, like one is that, you know, if I could whisper anything into any woman’s ear. And I think the hardest thing about where we are right now is like, actually, when you’re in the grind, you don’t know that there’s another world that’s possible for you. And sometimes we don’t realize we’re we’re in this box, and we can actually climb out of it. Not to say you have to quit your job start a business like Elaine and I did not at all. Sometimes when we just, like, take a moment to kind of peep over the edge and go, huh? Is this what I want? Like, is this how I want to create my life? Then you actually realize you can change a lot. And Elaine and I have seen this for women. So we know it is possible. I’ve seen women think they need to quit their jobs, and actually they realize it’s just a boundary issue. They need to speak up to their boss, and suddenly they’re like, oh, and I have all this work flexibility, so actually, I just need to get good at those uncomfortable conversations. Sometimes it can be the smallest tweak, which is why we’ve put specific things in the curriculum. So as I hear you talk like, I’m like, Oh, it’s so hard for women to realize that, because when you’re in it, you’re in it. But the second thing I wanted to share is also, I think that’s where you bring such a wealth of experience and knowledge to the watcher lead academy, Elaine, in that you were at Cathay, you were head of, you know, leadership development and Dei, right? You have lived this within corporate and I think you understand the challenges, not just as a professional woman that was navigating that, but also from an organizational perspective, how challenging it is to change culture and, you know, policy, etc,

Elaine
yeah, it’s heavy stuff, but it can be done. It, yeah, absolutely can be done. And it just takes, it takes people to say what’s what they’re thinking. You know, I was always there. People would like, look at me and go, you say it? Like, I can see them in their eyes. They’re like, can you say it? Can you I’ll say it, you know, like, have a voice, right? But we’ll get on to that later. I wanted to share a little quick snippet of an example of what you are talking about from within the organization. So like, like the Lululemon I also worked for another company, a Japanese company around Asia Pacific, and we did an offsite. So it’s, again, it was a six month program, few online and then off site, and we were in a group, so like, a little pod of five to six, which is what the academy program is going to be like with us, right? So one coach, one pod, so really intimate, we can have deep conversations, and those women can support each other. There was one lady who was quite, I would say, sort of see senior HR director and the big boss, the APAC Big Boss, was coming to Singapore. No, Taiwan. Sorry. Taiwan, to do a thing with, with all the people there, right? Like a, I don’t know, like a, what do you call them? Conference, offsite thing? Yeah. So I think there was, maybe, I’m going to say about 80 people, and they all spoke Mandarin, but because the boss was native English speaker, they were going to run the whole thing in English, and I could sense that there was some discomfort, because we were talking about difficult what’s a difficult conversation you need to have, which is also in our curriculum, right? Yeah, and that was a difficult conversation, and what she wanted was for it maybe to not all be in English, because, you know, there’s different levels of of understanding and levels of fluency amongst the team, and also it would just be much more impact, impactful it feels in our own language, but he’s the boss, and in Asia, we’ve got this massive hierarchy, and we respect the The hierarchy, and we don’t question it. And so as a group, we kind of group coached her, right? So again, it wasn’t just me, it was the other women as well. And in the end, she was like, You know what that is, what’s best for the team, that is what’s best for me, and that is what’s best for the organization. And I have no idea what he thinks about that idea, because I’m not, I’ve never even dared ask him. And so we, you know, we’re like, come on, you can do it. You can do it like after this off site go and just email him or give him a call and have a chat about it. And she did, and he was like, Yeah, okay, sure, at least let me do my talk in English, and then we can have a translator and you can facilitate in local language, and it was just a much more successful event because of it. But you know, even if she’d had the idea herself, she probably would have quickly let her inner critic go, You know what? No exactly, but because she had a coach to question her, give her a different perspective, and the women, she was able to. To create change, and that actually now sets her up, because now she is set a precedent that she’s going to ask for things and do things differently. So

Siobhan (Coach)
I love that story. Thank you for sharing. And I think that’s the thing so often as women, we might have an idea or we might feel a certain thing, but then we squash it down because it’s like, oh, I don’t know if that’s going to be okay. You know, how am I going to be perceived? The fear of judgment and how things are going to be perceived is such a huge, huge fear that can stop a lot of us, which is why I think community really matters. And that’s another reason why we created the academy in this container, like in this sort of experience, because you can be held in community and supported to see things differently. And Jim Rohn famously said you’re the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And so when you’re being brave together, and you see some another woman being brave, you can be like, Oh, how can maybe I should try something? And it’s like, the gym, it’s like, I see one woman picking up a weight, and I’m like, Oh, she’s trying that, maybe I can try that. And it just, it’s this beautiful ripple effect. And I think that’s the beauty of female communities, right? Like, we kind of built for this. We’re meant to be in community, and we’ve cultures kind of got us in these little silos, which doesn’t really serve us.

Elaine
And culture tells us, I was listening to this podcast the other day that women are mean to each other. We’re not like we were not. I think they think, or they want us to be catty towards each other. But in my experience, and I think yours too, there’s been nothing but support and nothing but go for it, you know? And yeah, like, I just find that weird that that’s even a thing,

Siobhan (Coach)
yeah, that actually reminds me, I’m a huge fan of The Graham Norton Show. It’s just funny humor, and I love to I think he’s such an amazing host, but he had the, what was that movie? It’s like the equivalent of Ocean’s 11, but it’s all the women Brianna, something, something like that, but exactly the same conversation. It was like, oh, you know, there’s these rumors that you’re all pitted against each other, and then the way they answered it was like, No, and there’s no alpha. Like, how can you have an alpha in this group of women? And it was just like, we’re solid, we’re tight, we’re great, you know? And I just, I love that moment. I

Unknown Speaker
think I’ve actually never seen that movie.

Siobhan (Coach)
Oh, really, okay, it’s a fun one. It’s nice to watch. Yeah, awesome. Okay, so really cool to hear your backstory around. You know what led you here? Let’s talk about what I lead and actually what it is, because I’ve been getting a few questions about, like, what is it? How does it work? So, yeah, how would you describe what the academy is? And,

Elaine
oh my goodness, I would describe it as a transformation. So I think anyone who signs up is brave, because the women we’ve had sign up are really betting on themselves. They know that they’re not 100% comfortable where they’re at. They know that there’s more to them, as in, they want to amplify themselves, and they know that they need support, which I call smart, but it takes courage and bravery to recognize that and then actually invest. So invest in terms of money, and we’re not very good at putting money towards ourselves. Yeah, myself included, I am very good at self development. Actually, I’m just not very good at buying myself nice things that I want

Speaker 2
to go buy that Lululemon jumper, damn it. I’m going to go buy it because I spent all money, too on my gift card, on someone else anyway,

Elaine
money and time, because it takes time, and it takes commitment, but it also is going to be a lot of self exploration. So I call anyone who comes to coaching quite brave, but brave in the sense that it’s good for you, brave. So I would call it a transformation, because what you’re going to get out of it at the end of the six months is, I truly believe, a renewed sense of self worth, a renewed sense of self confidence, a really clear picture of what you want in life and what success looks like for you. Because that is that, that is the key. I mean, we were watching that Oprah clip the other day, right? And she said the reason why so many people are stuck is because they don’t know what they want and they haven’t taken time to figure it out, and so they’re just swirling. They’re trying to work out the how, and they haven’t had the time to work out the what. You and I as coaches know that we always start with the what. So like, what do you want? And that’s one of the hardest questions to answer, right? It changes everything. It literally changes everything, because then you can put a goal together, or goals, and you can start to work towards those goals, but without knowing what success looks like for you. You You don’t have you’re like this way, that way, this way. So you will have very clear vision. You will also have a plan, right? So we’re going to talk about goal setting. We’re going to talk about how to support yourself in those goals. Again, everyone makes these like what New Year’s Eve? Resolutions, and then they fail because they haven’t put all the systems and mental and physical support in place to do that, I think people are going to feel quite badass at the end of it, because they’re going to learn how to ask for what they want. They’re going to hold boundaries, which for some of us is really difficult. They’re going to learn really great negotiation skills. They’re going to learn how to hold themselves right, like, just like, how to stand, how to speak, how to and it all sounds really basic, and when, and one of my pet hates is molding people. I hate putting people into boxes and saying you must stand like this and talk like this, like, if you go to a voice coach or a presence coach, they will teach you this bog standard, whereas we’re like, Okay, this is you. Let’s amplify you, right? Let’s turn your color up. Let’s make you more you and and and practice right? Because you can watch a you can go to a one day workshop, you can watch a TED talk, you can watch YouTube videos. But if you don’t put all of that into action, and we’re going to be doing this right in person, actually, like practicing your elevator pitch, practicing having a difficult conversation, trying out some of those negotiation skills, all that stuff is going to get you to that badass kind of place. And I think the other thing is, which is where your amazing work comes in, is we’re going to be doing a lot of embodiment work, really getting to know our inner wisdom, getting, you know, falling in love with ourselves again. And I don’t know, maybe you talk about more of that side, because that’s I love all that stuff.

Siobhan (Coach)
Yeah, no, I geek out on that. And I think, yes, again, that’s another thing about this program, is we’re not Yes. There’s going to be a robust curriculum that Elena has just spoken to, and we’re working on the on the topic of like, outcomes and action. We’re working with, you know, Shilpa and Ruhi, who are experts at adult learning, and you know, we have key behavioral indicators against every single topic that we’re talking about, because it’s not just information, it’s really going to be embodied wisdom. So I think that’s a really important point to hone in on. But it’s not even that. It’s not just about the information, it’s about assimilating it in your body. So, you know, for me, I, I am a coach, but I have gone down the rabbit hole of a whole heap of modalities in in that experience. So embodiment is absolutely one of the core principles of what I do. So actually working somatically in the body to find out what feels true for you. What does presence look like for you? Because even for Elaine and I, we’re different, right? And that’s great. We want difference like that’s what diversity is about. It’s about everyone bringing their full color to the table. And so yeah, there’s going to be the opportunity for you to embody these concepts. So what does it mean to get what you want in your body? And you know, what are the fears that come up for you, and knowing that you know your feeling of fear is different to perhaps how I feel fear, and we work with you on that. So, you know, there is embodiment. I’ve also gone down, you know, subconscious repattening work with hypnosis. Energetics like this is not just going to impact you at the level of the mind. It’s going to be across, you know, energy, emotions, mental, physical, spiritual, like all of those levels, because we can’t do the transformation, which you said, Elaine at the beginning, this is a transformational experience. If we’re just looking at the level of the mind, right? We need to look at all of you. So this program is bringing all of you to the table, you have a robust curriculum that will support you. But where the program comes to life is the community. It’s the live calls where we’re like, oh, how does that apply for you, Sarah, or for you Ning, like, you know, how? How does that work for you? And we’re purposely creating it so that it’s we’ve got these smaller pods as well. So we can do things in a bigger group of up to 24 women, which is still quite intimate and small. Actually, it’s a lovely size, but we can do the smaller pod work, because again, you know, in Asia, and I know, for me, I feel more comfortable in a smaller group, it’s safer to open up. And like you said, Elaine, it takes a brave woman to do this work, because there’s no hiding. We’re here to see all of you, and we have imperfections too. Like Elaine and I are not like, proclaiming to be experts. We’re just women who are committed to walking this path, and we’ve got tools, but we’re working on this as well. Like you were talking about the gym, right? Like, I mean, I’ve only been going to the gym for three years, and it’s like, I’m not a gym expert. Like, Steph is amazing, like the gym owner, like she’s that next level. It’s like, we’re all just there together. And also, watch her lead is not just Elaine and my program. We’ve invited in these experts, like you mentioned, like Anna and the red are and like Ruhi and Shilpa, and then we’ve got Fran and we’ve got. Jen, and we’ve got, you know, the guest experts that are coming in, and this is a co creation, everyone, like the women, stepping into it, I’ve said to them, and I say it’s co creation, like they’re contributing to that container. And who’s in your cohort is meant to be as well. Because I feel that through the twf mentoring program, I was like, I was meant to meet the meet these women at this time.

Unknown Speaker
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So I went down a tirade there on a rat. I love it.

Elaine
That’s my support. You said, when you were talking about everything your work, when you going back to, like, how we met, and stuff, I was asking or thinking and asking for that side, I was like, I’m really great at all this corporate stuff. You know, I’ve been a leadership trainer facilitator for a while. I know what it’s like to walk into boardrooms. I know what it’s like to, you know, to do presentations, and I know what it’s like to challenge people and have difficult conversation, all that stuff which we’re going to go into, and I’m super passionate about helping others with, but I’m like, I know for me that the biggest transformations have come when I listen to my inner wisdom, or I work with people who help me with how my feelings, you Know, Like in my body and somatically, and when I slow down and when I get in alignment, like, as you know, my favorite podcast is Kathy Heller, and she’s all about the Woo, and she’s all about the alignment and the energy and the flow and the universe. And to me, no one sees that, right? That’s my private practice. But I was like, I that I need that. I need someone who knows how to do all that, because I practice it, but I’m I’m not a practitioner of it. And and then when I met you, it took a few conversations right for us to get to that point, yeah. And I was like, you, that’s your work. That’s what you

Speaker 3
that’s what you do. Oh, my God, I found you. I found you. Yes,

Elaine
and it’s meant to be game changer. And then you, you know, you’re, you’re now doing human design, which is so fascinating. And you know, we’re going to do one, right? And, and you’ve done, you’ve got clients. I just, I’m like, just gold mine. I just feel like we’re digging.

Siobhan (Coach)
It’s all meant to be as well. Like, full transparency, I have been very skeptical about sharing the woo side, and I’ve been called to study very unusual modalities. And it’s, it’s such an unlearning to be like, Why am I studying this? This is weird. My logical mind is like, this doesn’t make sense. Why are you doing this? But the body is leading, and it’s like, you need to do this. So,

Elaine
like, an economic major,

Siobhan (Coach)
minor, but you know, it’s that head, heart tussle. So again, I’m sharing, thank you for bringing up the point. The point in it is that very familiar with this head, heart tussle and like, but the mind says logic and strategy, and this doesn’t make sense, but the body and heart is telling me to do this. Like, how do you reconcile that that’s something we bring into the program

Elaine
and yourself permission, yeah, to actually lean into what is meant for you

Siobhan (Coach)
exactly, and trusting that when you do the right opportunities come forward. So, so interesting, right? Like I was looking for community and connection, and that happened. And you were looking for, you know, the alignment and the other, you know, energetics and embodiment pieces and that that happened. And one of my mentors taught me that, you know, you have intention, vibration and action. So you set the intention when you align your vibration to it, like you’re an energetic match, and you take the action towards it, not knowing how. Then it comes in,

Elaine
which I have, actually, I know we’re doing a podcast, and I could ask you to ask, but intention, vibration, action. We take the action.

Siobhan (Coach)
We take the action. So we take the action from that vibration Exactly, exactly. And Tony Robbins talks about massive action versus, I think it’s inspired action, or something inspired action, yeah. So you’re taking it from that place of, you know, self trust and like, this is what I want to do. So I think one of, yeah, so that that’s a core piece. But I think you know, coming back to watch her lead and who this program is for. You know, our five pillars, they might sound very generic from the outside, right? Module One is getting clear on what you want. Module two is the art and science of getting what you want. Module three is leading as your authentic self in Asia. Number four is getting what you want, so then negotiation and asking, and number five is adaptability and resilience. But as I said, the program comes to life when you bring your goals and you bring your intentions into that. So whether you’re in corporate and you do want to climb the ladder and like, you’re like, Okay, I know that that might not be the part. But, you know, I do want to go for that next promotion, and you’re doing it because that’s coming from here, not here. We will support you in that. If you want to, you know, think about how you might start a portfolio career so that you can, you know, manage risk in the future. We will support you with that. If you want to leave and start your business, we will support you with that. Again, like you said, Elaine, like we’re not here to mold people into cookie cutter leaders. We are our mission and our vision with watch, our lead is to again. We’re not, we don’t think women are broken and need fixing. It’s literally just almost like dusting off that mud and that heaviness and that armor and just being like, yes, this I’m going to do it my way. And when every woman does that, like you were talking Elaine about, like, impacting one person at a time, the ripple effect of that is huge. Like, I think about Steph at the gym. She’s got this gym, the ripple effect of her being so passionate about that and, like, suddenly I got interested in exercise. And then when I talk to you, I’m like, Oh, it took me three years to go, like, four times a week. But, you know, you start with one day a week, and you just built like, it. It just ripple effect. And that’s the community effect, and that’s what we

Elaine
want in your head thinking about, how am I going to get to high rocks, you know, how am I going to lose 30 pounds? Or, how am I going to get to director level? Or how am I going to start a

Speaker 1
business? It’s like, just, just stop, just exactly. I don’t know if you can see this, but basically,

Elaine
this is, this is the what I’ve just written down, intention, vibration, action, without us really freaking strategizing this. This is what watch a lead is. So you have the intention. So join, right? Join, watch early, come into our community. Invest in yourself for six months, the vibration is there, right? Oh, yeah. Ever comes, we will create that vibration together, and then the action is what we’re going to hold you accountable to. And you know, so you were saying just now about in these pods and things. I think one of the things we should let people know is that let’s say it’s around difficult conversations, right? Or let’s say it’s about a boundary, or let’s say it’s about practicing something there’s going to be and I don’t want to scare people off, but this is why I’m saying you have to be a bit brave. Is this going to be homework right between the sessions? So we’re going to learn it, we’re going to practice it. We’re going to get a real life example that’s going on for you right now. It’s not like you’re not going to have Harvard case studies and things like that, all those, those are useful. And then you’re going to go out right? And you’re actually going to go and do it with the support of us, your cheerleaders in the background, and you’re going to be like, Guys, I did it, or I’m about to do it, and we’re like, you got it, you got it, you got it, right? You do it, and you come back and you tell us about it, and we work through it. Maybe it was a complete fail. Okay, great. What happened to you? What was your body feeling? What was going through your mind? What actually happened? What did you say? What was the reaction, and then let’s try again, right? Or you nailed it. Woohoo. I mean, I just can’t wait to see what happens. I just, come on,

Speaker 4
people, let’s do this. I know, I know. I can’t wait. So the invitation is open,

Siobhan (Coach)
like we are extending our arms and saying we would love to welcome you into the academy. And again, going back to who it’s for. You could. You could be a professional woman working in corporate. You might be a teacher. You might be an entrepreneur. You might be a consultant. If you’re working in some capacity like this program is, or you’re

Elaine
on a career break, and you’re on a career break, get yourself ready to get back in.

Siobhan (Coach)
Yeah, exactly. Actually, one of the common misconceptions that I have, like some people think they need to go and study an MBA so that they can make a career switch. And I’m like, Okay, if you need it, sure. But this is almost, I want to say it’s the the real like inner MBA, the inner CEO MBA, yeah, that really supports you to create change, because you’re the one in the driving seat. It’s not the corporate finance, it’s not the marketing, it’s not the ESG, like, yes, okay, that’s information, but we want to master you right, to be able to go and lead, and that’s what watch her lead is about. So doors are officially open. Hopefully you’ve got a sense of who Elaine and I are and why we created this, why we’re so passionate about it, and the next steps really are, come on over to our website, watchherlead.com and when you’re there, you can book in a conversation with us. If you’ve got a few questions, we have a complimentary 20 minute Career Clarity call where we can just sense check with you if it’s the right fit for what you’re looking for. But if you know, then go ahead and make an application. Because, again, we just want to make sure that everybody is in the right place. And

Elaine
actually, I’ve heard people say the application just filling out the application, which probably takes about what 15 minutes was coaching in itself, because the questions that we put in the application are questions. Questions around, how ready are you? You know, because they take the quiz, right? They take the future ready quiz, which we can put in the show notes. Then you do the application and you’re like, actually, this really is for me, or actually it’s not for me yet, yeah, but even just trying the application process, just just literally filling in the Google Form will help you figure out whether or not this is right for you. So just don’t, you don’t even have to talk to us. Do that

Siobhan (Coach)
absolutely, absolutely. It’s like, it’s like coaching in there, which is, which is, sorry to interrupt you. No, no, thanks. I’m glad that you jumped in. So that’s your next step. At the time of recording, our next cohort is running from January to June, 2026 we do anticipate that we’ll be rolling running this again in the future. So if you’re listening to this and it’s already past that timeline, still come to our website. You might be able to we’d love to encourage you to apply for the next cohort. And I think the only piece we haven’t shared about is the Asia Pacific part of it. Yes, anything you want to add on that part before we begin to wrap

Elaine
it. Well, if you were to ask me the question again, where did the idea come from? You and I invest a lot in ourselves in terms of learning, right? Yeah. And how many times have you woken up at three in the morning to attend a call that was based in the US.

Unknown Speaker
I’m on a year long program.

Unknown Speaker
I’ve just signed up for that. So yes, or

Elaine
whatever, the best one is the Australian time zones, right? India, maybe. But I don’t. I have not seen much come out of India that that is in this women leadership space, anyway. So we were like, We need something in Asia. Please put something in Asia time zones, right? I’ve actually written to people organizers of I’m like, this program is amazing. When are you going to run one here? You know what a call, it’s an Asian time zones. So that was one thing, but the more important thing was culturally, you and I both from Chinese backgrounds, right? Chinese, Irish, Chinese, Scottish, Hong Kong born and bred type thing, and we’ve had the privilege of growing up in a very multi cultural environment, so understanding different cultures and food, but also working in a very multicultural environment in Asia, right? So not just in Hong Kong, but in Singapore and Southeast Asia and like this, this group I was telling you about the other day, we had Taiwanese, Vietnamese, Korean, Japanese, Australian and Hong Kong Chinese, and just the nuances of those cultures. And we are not cultural experts, but we understand the depth of of what it’s like to be a woman in an Asian context, both as family background, right? So what’s expected of you from different families, and again, it’s very different across Asia, but also as an Asian woman in the workplace, and all the biases that come with that, and all the system systemic barriers and all the headwinds and all that stuff. And I’m every time I speak with another woman who may not even be Asian descent, but she works in Asia, right, there’s that little like you can say, like, Okay, I’m safe here. I can talk about this stuff. Yeah, yeah. And I think that’s really missing right now. Yeah, 100%

Siobhan (Coach)
agree with you. And I think, again, just to be really clear, for the watcher Leader program, it’s for you could be an Asian woman, you know, living in Asia, or you just might be a woman working in Asia, and you’re navigating the culture here, because culture runs super deep. And you know, we we need spaces to practice be brave. And you know, some of these topics are really sensitive, and we don’t want to get it wrong, which is why we stay quiet, right? And so being able to figure out how we approach that certain things that are challenging in nature can be really helpful so that we can advance this, you know, equality initiative that well, all of us are passionate about. And I think, you know, your superpower, Elaine, is like you make people feel so seen. And I think that’s something that I’ve felt from you from the very beginning. And it’s like everyone feels seen, right? There’s, it’s a unique gift. And you know, to I’m on, I get the benefit of, like, working with you, so I know that I feel deeply seen, like in what I do. But, you know, I think that’s, that’s another element that you really bring to this program, and you know, to be really seen as a woman is,

Elaine
yeah, it’s, it’s powerful, yeah, yeah. Because that’s, I mean, we all just want to be seen, don’t we, but not like scene. Scene just seen for who we are inside and that, you know, you’re cool as you are, you’re good as you are. You don’t need to change exactly are just good as you are. Yeah,

Siobhan (Coach)
exactly good inside. Amazing. Well, we are at time. So thank you for for taking the time. Time to walk us through all of that. It’s been nice to chat through. Watch her lead and, yeah, please join us. We’d love to have you, and we can’t wait to get to know you, and we want to bring this upswell of community. I’m

Elaine
really excited about it, and if anyone’s listening, who is like, you know what? This not for me, but I have a friend or, you know, just, we just, we’re starting a movement, and we’re women in early business, and so we know that we’re handing out leaflets. We know that we’re, like, doing a therapy t shirt. You know, we are. We’re just, we’re hustling, right we’re hustling there now, but I know. And when you said, if you’re listening to this later on in the future, yeah, I’m like, we’ve run one, we’ve run a cohort, and then we’re gonna have another one, and we’re gonna go to Vietnam and do one, and we’re gonna go to Korea and do one. You know, I just this vision, so please help us spread the word.

Siobhan (Coach)
Yeah, yes, love that. And yeah, our door is open. Check out the website, book a conversation, make a application, whichever option feels right and true for you, but thanks so much for tuning in today, and we hope that we get to actually meet you in person and support you soon. Bye.